January 2008 Archives
Today’s Wall Street Journal has an interesting story by Sarah Rubenstein titled “When Drug Trials Go Wrong, Patients Have Little Recourse.” The story recounts the experience of Suzanne Davenport who was the subject in a clinical trial testing drugs for Parkinson’s disease. As a result, she is wheelchair bound and living in a nursing home. The story makes mention of the cases we have filed on behalf of injured human subjects.
The article notes that the consent form Ms. Davenport signed promised: "If you are injured as a direct result of research procedures, you will receive treatment at no cost." Yet when Ms. Davenport’s family wrote to the researchers requesting that they pay for her treatment, they did not receive a favorable response.
Too often researchers and their sponsors fail to care for the human subjects in their trials when an adverse event occurs. If they would do so in the first instance, they might avoid the litigation that is sure to follow.
Alan Milstein
Ace Insurance Company received a bit of its own medicine in a recent Superior Court Opinion. The court ruled that Ace had not given timely notice of a claim for bad faith to its insurer and that the insurer need not show prejudice in receiving the late notice.
Ace is appealing and, while we would normally be hesitant to root for an insurer before the high court, we will make an exception here where the plaintiff insurer is wearing the hat of the insured. There is no reason why late notice should relieve an insurer of its obligation to indemnify an insured in the absence of prejudice whether the underlying policy is occurrence based or claims made.
Jeffrey Resnick
This appeared first at blog-bioethics.net.
By
January’s issue of Human Gene Therapy offers some intriguing commentary on the issue of informed consent in gene transfer trials. I became aware of the articles when a writer for TheScientist Blog called for my reaction to the Editorial by James Wilson, because I had represented the Gelsinger family after the death of their son in the experiment sponsored by Dr. Wilson and because I currently represent the family of
My initial reaction reported by the caller reflects my surprise that Dr. Wilson would thrust himself into the debate when the informed consent process he used during his trial was so deficient.
In the Editorial, Wilson writes:‘I encourage the professional gene therapy societies and various related foundations to work together in the new year to undertake a critical review of the conduct of our clinical trials... it behooves us to get ahead of this issue and put in place more effective ways to assure that research subjects who courageously give of themselves can do so with a full and unbiased understanding of the risks and benefits of their participation.”
The Issue includes commentaries by Art Caplan and Jeffrey Kahn who both question whether subjects in such trials are ever able to understand the mechanism of gene transfer and the risks associated with this nascent technology. Both call for subject advocates to be included in the process so that the human subject has a representative who can understand the risks and benefits of participation and offer advice on whether participation is in his or her best interest. Kahn questions whether the name of the field itself, splattered through the pages of the informed consent documents, misrepresents gene transfer as a proven therapy when, of course, it is not. Caplan laments: “very little has changed in the past decade in the way informed consent is obtained from perspective subjects.”
What is most troubling is that
The subject of this massive document was “Filing of Amended Return, and Tax Statements” and Snipes made numerous claims throughout:
1.He doesn’t have a Social Security Number or Tax ID number
2. his name is Wesley Trent Snipes, not WESLEY TRENT SNIPES
3. his advisors had filed that amended Form 1040 for 1997 in his name and he now issued a “sincere apology about the 1997 filing”; he claimed that when he filed the amended return in 2001, he “didn’t have the legal skills” that he does now and admitted that the “refund attempt may have been illegal.”
4. he complained that he was being both ignored and persecuted
5. he made it clear that he has not waived his sovereign immunity
6. he asserted that he is a “nontaxpayer” not a taxpayer and is therefore free from taxes
7. after claiming that he is a nonresident alien and instead of finally filing a normal Form 1040, he submitted a blank amended Form 1040NR-EZ and stamped “NOT LIABLE” on it in huge block letters
8. he called the prosecutor and IRS people “public dis-servants” among other insults
9. he threatened “significant personal liability” for anyone who tried to collect from him
10. “Warning: pursuit of such a high profile target will open the door for your increased collateral risk.”
The California Supreme Court has held that employers may terminate employees who test positive for marijuana use even if such use is prescribed by a physician to treat chronic pain. The Court held in Ross v. RagingWire:
"We conclude that the lower courts were correct: Nothing in the text or history of the Compassionate Use Act suggests the voters intended the measure to address the respective rights and duties of employers and employees. Under
Ross had been terminated after his preemployment drug test revealed the presence of
Despite the clear views of the people of
The dissent recognized that the majority “disrespects the will of
Alan Milstein
A Yiddish Proverb claims "Borrowed brains have no value." Maybe. But not when it comes to litigation.
When 30 year old Mark Albrecht drowned after an epileptic seizure, the state ordered an autopsy by the local coroner. After the procedure, the body was returned to the family for burial. What was not returned was Albrecht’s brain which had been removed by the coroner and later cremated and discarded as medical waste.
The family filed a class action lawsuit against all of
Both sides claim an adverse result will lead to an avalanche of further trouble. The coroners claim a plaintiff’s win here would greatly restrict the right of the state to conduct autopsies, an argument with little merit. The plaintiffs, on the other hand, claim scientists would view a decision favorable to the defense as an invitation to harvest organs obtained in autopsy for use in medical research.
The bottom line is that it would seem to ask little of the coroners if they had to give notice to the interested families of the autopsy procedures and the right to obtain the removed body parts after the autopsy is completed.
Alan Milstein
Here is an article in TheScientist Blog which includes my reaction to the Editorial by James Wilson in the January issue of Human Gene Therapy.
Alan Milstein
If you have ever thought it odd that your physican wrote your prescription on a pen inscribed with the very logo of the company whose drug he or she was prescribing, you are not alone. Now, the Minnesota Star Tribune reports, SMDC Health System of Duluth has banned all drug-logo freebies at its four hospitals and 17 clinics in
In response, SMDC employees turned in 18,700 items, including Nexavar pens, Combivir note pads, Vioxx mouse pads, Advair and Levitra clipboards, a disembodied stuffed nose from Allegra that exclaims, "That's snot funny," clocks, mugs, surgical caps, calculators, tape dispensers, and a stress-relieving squeeze toy made to look like a red blood cell.
Not surprisingly, BigPharma is not pleased that its sales representatives have to cease such back-door direct to patient marketing techniques. “This is the first time I've ever heard of a systematic round-up of pens," said Ken Johnson, senior vice president of Washington, D.C.-based Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America. "Clearly there's a marketing backlash we've seen in a number of states. But this is a bit draconian."
Not according to Dr. Sidney Wolfe, director of health research for Public Citizen, a nonprofit consumer advocacy group in Washington: "A hundred thousand a year is nickels and dimes compared to the savings patients will experience when they aren't prescribed the most expensive drugs inappropriately. All this stuff that's handed out is really influence peddling. It's legalized bribery."
Alan Milstein
The New Jersey legislature amended the state's Law Against Discrimination ("LAD") effective January 13, 2008. The amendment requires employers to reasonably accommodate the sincerely held religious beliefs of its employees and applicants, including allowing time off to observe the Sabbath or other holy days, unless to do so would impose an undue burden.
The amendment provides that an employer may not "impose upon a person as a condition of obtaining or retaining employment, including opportunities for promotion, advancement or transfers, any terms or conditions that would require a person to violate or forego a sincerely held religious practice or religious observance" unless "after engaging in a bona fide effort the employer demonstrates that it is unable to reasonably accommodate the religious observance or practice without undue hardship on the conduct of the employer's business."
The amendment does not define "bona fide effort" to reach a reasonable accommodation. As to "undue hardship, the amendment defines it "as an "accommodation requiring (1) unreasonable expense or difficulty, (2) unreasonable interference with the safe or efficient operation of the workplace, (3) a violation of a bona fide seniority system or (4) a violation of any provision of a bona fide collective bargaining agreement. The amendment further provides "an accommodation shall be considered to constitute an undue hardship if it will result in the inability of an employee to perform the essential functions of the position in which he or she is employed," and (2) no accommodation is required "where the uniform application of terms and conditions of attendance to employees is essential to prevent undue hardship to the employer."
As to the effect on pay and benefits of granting a religious accommodation, the amendment provides an employee is not entitled to any "premium wages"or "premium benefits" that would otherwise be applicable to the hours worked by the employee as an accommodation. So if an employee works the night shift or a Sunday or holiday that is not his or own as an accommodation, the employee is not entitled to any pay differential that might otherwise be applicable.
An article published today in the New England Journal of Medicine confirms what we have described as a serious problem in the manner in which the FDA allows drug companies to control the release of data in clinical trials. The authors conducted a meta-analysis of clinical trials evaluating the effectiveness of antidepressants. They found that the companies published 97% of the studies in which positive results were found but only 12% of studies in which the findings were negative.
While the drug companies must report the results of all their clinical trials to the FDA, the agency at present is prohibited from publishing the results on its own.
This system has to be changed. Not only do human subjects and patients have the right to review all material information about the drugs or therapies they have been prescribed, but physicians also have the need to review material information before they suggest a particular drug or treatment. While BigPharma may have a monetary interest in keeping negative information about their products from the public, the interest in public health is what the FDA is obligated to protect.
Alan Milstein
The first executive to be charged and convicted over backdating stock options was sentenced to 21 months in prison and ordered to pay $15 million in fines. The executive, Gregory L. Reyes Jr., was the former CEO of Brocade Communications Systems. The heavy sentence, according to Judge Charles R. Breyer, was warranted because Reyes had obstructed justice in preparing for trial. What probably didn't help were his comments to the Judge before sentencing: “I’m sorry. There is much that I regret, and if I could turn back the clock I would."
This first appeared at Blog.Bioethics.Net.
Zetia situation demonstrates need for a more open clinical trial process
By Alan C. Milstein
The news about Zetia and Vytorin once again raises a major problem in the way the FDA allows drug companies to control the information about the clinical trials they conduct, often to the detriment to public health. Apparently, Merck and Schering-Plough had completed the trial which has just hit the media back in April of 2006. While analyzing the results of the 720 human subjects might have taken some time, the data hardly could have been as complex as the two companies claimed in explaining the continued delay in reporting the information which will undoubtedly cost them sales of their drugs.
Meanwhile, there was little reduction in the direct advertising the companies did for the products. We still repeatedly had to witness the actors pretending to be med students on rounds discussing the advantages of Zetia with their mentor and the cute morphing of Aunt Meg and hard-boiled eggs in the Vytorin commercials.
Merck, of course, faced similar criticism about delaying the release of clinical trial data about Vioxx. And all the major players in BigPharma faced tough questioning from Congress over their failure to report the results of clinical trials they conducted which revealed that SSRIs increased the likelihood of suicide and suicide ideation in adolescents while showing no efficacy in the treatment of childhood depression. A long-delayed Black Box warning was the result
This is not a new problem. A few years back, I was investigating the systemic and institutional failures which caused the death of 18 year old Jesse Gelsinger. The Recombinant DNA Activities Committee had previously rejected a call for a Gene Therapy Information Network which would house the adverse events of all gene therapy trials so other investigators and human subjects would have access to the information. A prior trial at a different institution had yielded results which might have predicted Gelsinger’s reaction to the adenovirus but had been marked proprietary by the research team. In an off the record conversation, Phil Noguchi, FDA Director of Cellular and Gene Therapy and a member of the RAC, told Jesse’s father and me that had the network been approved Jesse would not have been killed. A sobering thought, to say the least.
While that network is now in place, more needs to be done to make the clinical trial enterprise in this country transparent and to eliminate the ability of pharmaceutical companies to withhold or delay the results of their clinical trials. The companies will cry that millions are at stake. But those are of lives not just dollars.
Alan C. Milstein is a nationally recognized litigator in the areas of insurance law, products liability, bioethics and clinical trials litigation.
It’s official. Chimpanzees are not human beings. So ruleth Austria's Supreme Court. The court recently rejected a petition to appoint a trustee for the chimp, shown at the left, named Matthew Hiasl Pan. The case arose when Pan’s shelter declared bankruptcy. Animal rights activists wanted to ensure Pan and his roommate Rosi didn’t wind up homeless but, under Austrian law, personal gifts could not be made to animals. Some clever member of the group thought the solution was to have the chimp declared a person. The court, however, failed to play along.
Interestingly, both chimps were captured as babies in Sierra Leone and were smuggled into Austria to be used in pharmaceutical experiments. Customs officers intercepted the shipment and placed Pan and Rosi in the animal shelter.
SSKRP has been on the forefront of making favorable law for insureds on the issue of collapse. Two cases make this point.
In 401 Fourth Street,Inc. v. Investors Insurance Group, the insured’s building was bowing and in imminent danger of collapse. When it contacted its insurance company, it received a peculiar response. Wait until it falls, the company said, because we won’t pay you before then to prevent the harm that might come from the building’s fall.
This was a case of first impression for the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. The state’s lower appellate courts had always ruled against the insureds on this issue, holding that collapse meant collapse not risk of collapse, even if such a holding created a dangerous dilemma for an owner of building in such a condition. The Supreme Court reversed, changing the law of collapse in the Commonwealth. The Court held that the reasonable expectation of an insured is that insurance policies cover claims that a building is about to collapse because of a covered event. In other words, the imminent risk of collapse is recoverable damage and no one should have to wait until further damage develops.
The other case had an interesting twist. Christ Memorial Episcopal Church was the oldest and grandest of the churches in the Diocese of the Reformed Episcopal Church. It had been built in the last quarter of the nineteenth century and its elegant 171 foot steeple was the tallest structure in
There were only fifty members in the congregation and they could hardly afford the two million dollars it would cost to repair the steeple. Then on a hot August night, as if by divine intervention, lightning struck the steeple causing it to fall. The insurance company refused coverage claiming that the steeple was so weak from wear and tear the company should not have to pay the more than seven million dollars it would cost to replace the damage as new.
The issue for the court was a familiar one. What do you do when wear and tear weakens a structure but a covered event causes it to fall? The court found in favor of coverage. Even if wear and tear so weakens a structure it would fall soon anyway, if it falls because of a covered event, the company must pay, even if it would not have fallen had the structure been sound. An act of God, in other words, is a risk the insurance company assumes when it takes the church’s premiums.
Jeffrey Resnick
As everyone now knows, the actor Wesley Snipes begins the process of jury selection in his Federal criminal tax fraud trial today. Mr. Snipes is charged with various Federal offenses including tax evasion for, primarily, taking the position and advising others, that the United States can only tax your income generated in other countries, not your income generated in the United States. This position has been rejected on numerous occasions and is more appropriately attributable to tax protestors than to big screen actors.
Tax protestors are those that make varying, often nonsensical, assertions about the inability of the United States to tax their income, an example of which is the assertion that the 26th Amendment to the United States Constitution was never ratified and that therefore the IRS does not have the authority to tax your income. For the most part, the IRS pursues tax protestors through the civil process and those protestors pay monetary penalties for their conduct. Mr. Snipes, however, is facing 16 years in jail for his protesting conduct.
Seems harsh? Yes, it is. Watch the newspapers in the months of March and April. Particularly, the first or second week of April. You will see a very well known person pursued criminally for tax evasion. This is all about compliance. For the most part, the IRS relies on individuals to govern themselves and be honest about the amount of their income and expenses and pay their fair share of tax. That self- governance is kept in check through deterrence. The theory of deterrence is that if the public sees a well known person prosecuted for a tax crime right around the time they themselves are supposed to be honest and pay their taxes, that they will be more inclined to do so. That works. If Wesley Snipes is on trial for tax evasion, it is news. Today, it is a lead on every Internet news site and most television and print media outlets are running the story,
Mr. Snipes submitted claims for refund which are amended tax returns and on those returns, Mr. Snipes apparently took the position that his income from acting was not taxable by the United States. Mr. Snipes is defending his conduct of submitting those refund claims by saying that he didn't act willfully to defraud the United States by asking for refunds on that basis, but rather, that by making those claims for a refund, he was merely asking the IRS if his position was correct. The problem with the "I was asking a question" defense is that you have an obligation to submit only refund claims with "questions" for which there is some basis in law. If there is no basis whatsoever for your claim or worse, that the basis for which you make your claim is one that has been rejected as frivolous on numerous previous occasions, than your claims can be deemed those of a tax protestor.
The United States wants the tax protestors to stop. They have tried everything from prosecuting the tax protestor individuals, the promotors who sell books and other materials to help tax protestors or create them, their accountants and their lawyers...and now, unfortunately for Mr. Snipes, he will be the new face of tax protestor deterrence; take a plea bargain, Mr. Snipes....it's a bad case and there is no take two.
John Hanamirian
Over at SCOTUS are links to the many amicus briefs filed in support of the
This appeared first over at the Sports Law Blog.
Another African American superstar athlete has been prosecuted by the Justice Department for perjury arising from the Balco Grand Jury. Now Marion Jones, winner of five Olympic medals and probably the best female athlete of our time, has been sentenced to 6 months in prison by a federal judge in New York.The Judge’s remarks in sentencing Jones are curious and reflect the double standard facing celebrated sports figures. On the one hand, the Judge said: “I want to make [people] realize no one is above the law,” reinforcing the myth that these athletes are too often given passes by the media and the law when they get in trouble. In fact, just the opposite is more likely to be the case as evidenced by the reason the Judge gave for handing out such a harsh sentence to someone with no criminal history and who is not a threat to anyone. “Athletes in society,” he continued, “have an elevated status. They entertain, they inspire and perhaps most importantly, they serve as role models for kids around the world. When there is a widespread level of cheating, it sends all the wrong messages to those who follow these athletes’ every move.”
What is that? Jones, who is still nursing her seven month old, has to spend six months locked away from her family and the rest of us because she disappointed the kids who idolized her? Where in the sentencing guidelines is that factor?
I said it before and I will say it again. This Bush-Gonzalez Justice Department does not have the moral authority to sentence anyone, but particularly African-Americans, to prison for not telling the truth about whether he or she took performance enhancing drugs. Not when the President commuted the sentence of Scooter Libby who was convicted of lying about an issue that led the country into an unjustified war and when the Attorney General himself had trouble telling the truth under oath before Congress.
Everybody loves a good story about hypocritical politicians but the Chuck Rosenthal scandal may be the best one yet. Rosenthal is the District Attorney of Harris County, Texas, the county with the highest number of executions of any county in the land. His office even sought the death penalty for Andrea Yates, the clearly emotionally troubled woman who drowned her five children. Rosenthal, a self-proclaimed evangelical conservative, believes capital punishment is part of God’s plan.
Apparently, Rosenthal has some plans of his own. Some 860 of his emails recently surfaced in a civil rights suit against his office. Rosenthal had argued the emails were protected by his constitutional right to privacy established in cases like the one he lost in the United States Supreme Court in which he argued that Texas should be allowed to outlaw homosexual practices.
In one email, the married Rosenthal tells his legal assistant who he now claims was only a former paramour: “The very next time I see you I want to kiss you behind your right ear.” In others, Rosenthal forwards rather lame racist and sexist jokes and videos. Now the state’s attorney has opened up an investigation into whether Rosenthal also illegally used his office email for campaign activities. As far as we know, such indiscretions do not yet carry the death penalty in
Alan Milstein
From the annals of crime comes an interesting opinion from the Ninth Circuit.
Lawrence Cohen, along with two others, owned and operated a storefront business where they sold books, tapes, videos and other instructional materials explaining how to legally stop paying income taxes. Frequently, as part of his consultation services, Cohen advised clients to file a “zero return,” a tax return with zeros placed on the income reporting lines which generate refunds if someone has had income tax withheld during the course of the year.
The Justice Department does not take kindly to such enterprises and it charged Mr. Cohen with various federal tax and other criminal offenses; he was convicted in the District Court. All criminal acts generally require that there be some intentional conduct and in tax crimes that intent is couched in terms of willfulness. On appeal, Mr. Cohen argued that he did not have that requisite willfulness but that he could not prove this defense when the court precluded his psychiatric expert who had opined that Mr. Cohen suffered a “mental disease …bearing on … the issue of guilt.”
The expert had diagnosed Mr. Cohen as suffering from a narcissistic personality disorder and concluded that he “did not intend to violate the law, as would be the case with a criminal who acted out of a desire for personal gain” but rather “[h]is behavior is driven by a mental disorder as opposed to criminal motivation…Although it is true Mr. Cohen was not delusional or psychotic and was in possession of basic mental faculties, his will was in the service of irrational beliefs as a result of narcissistic personality disorder.” The report also noted:
Because [Cohen’s] beliefs are fixed and have led him to significant adverse consequences, he is irrational to the point of dysfunction, demonstrated by his stubborn adherence in the face of overwhelming contradictions and knowledge of substantial penalty. …Despite evidence to the contrary, his psychological needs dominated his mentation…This is the nature of the narcissistic personality in which the sufferer could essentially pass a lie detector test when asked commonsensical questions while giving improbable answers.
The United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit reversed, concluding that psychiatric expert testimony on narcissistic personality disorder is admissible to help a jury determine intent. The Court of Appeals reasoned that the expert testimony could have helped Mr. Cohen counter the government’s arguments that he knew the “zero returns” were false because, once Mr. Cohen obtained a belief about the validity and legality of his conduct, he would cling doggedly to that belief even in the face of overwhelming contradictions.
So that rude patron at the next table exhibiting a socially repugnant level of narcissism while out to dinner just may be building a criminal tax fraud defense.
John Hanamirian
The New Jersey Assembly has passed an amendment to the state's Wrongful Death Statute allowing claims for pain and suffering as well as for mental anguish and loss of companionship. Previously, only pecuniary damages were permitted. Here is a copy of the Amendment.
Our friend and colleague Michael McCann has some interesting thoughts on the appearance of Clemens on 60 Minutes last night.
Here is my post on the subject on Sports Law Blog and the post of Howard Wasserman.
Now Clemens has filed a defamation suit against his former trainer. This is high stakes poker the two former friends are playing. Only one of them can be telling the truth and the other has subjected himself to serious consequences. If McNamee is lying, he clearly has not only defamed Clemens but broken his plea deal with federal prosecutors. If Clemens is lying, he can forget the Hall of Fame and will probably face perjury charges if he testifies falsely before Congress.
Proof will be the issue for both men. One doubts there is any documentary evidence like emails. It will be one man’s word against another. How a fact finder makes the determination of who to believe will be fascinating to watch, as it is in every jury trial. Anyone who watched 60 Minutes went through the same process a jury will be selected to undergo, although the cross examiner should be more probing than Clemens’ friend Mike Wallace. Did he look us in the eye? What was his body language telling us? Did he have a motive to lie? Did he look like he was telling a truth?
Here is a copy of the Complaint.
Alan Milstein
It might normally be hard to root for someone like Jose Padilla. He is a former Chicago gang member who converted to Islam and allegedly attended terrorist training camps in Central Asia, then was arrested coming through Chicago’s O’Hare Airport with $10,000 in cash and a list of suspected Al Queda agents. Last year, he was convicted in
Padilla’s attorneys filed suit in federal court in
Now, incredibly, the former clerk to Justice Clarence Thomas, teaches law at UC Berkely. The suit was filed by Jonathan Freiman of
Here is a copy of the lawsuit.
Alan Milstein
“When a man wants to murder a tiger, he calls it sport; when the tiger wants to murder him, he calls it ferocity. The distinction between crime and justice is no greater.” George Bernard Shaw
The great tiger litigation is heating up. Criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos has signed on to represent the two brothers mauled by Tatiana at the
Zoo director Manuel Mollinedo responded, saying: "All I know is that something prompted our tiger to jump out of her enclosure." Sam Singer, the zoo’s public relations director, added that the word of a criminal defense attorney should be taken "not just with a grain of salt but with a ton."
Geragos appears to have a pretty good case, to say the least. The zoo’s enclosure was undersized, the “moat” was dry, the staff seemed to doubt the initial reports that the tiger was on the loose and apparently kept the police at bay outside the gate. Even if Geragos' clients taunted the tiger, zoos should expect such unmanly behavior on occasion and make sure their animals, though justifiably peeved, should not be able to retaliate.
Alan Milstein
Ms. Ferguson and Mr. McKiernan made a deal. He would donate his sperm and would never seek visitation; she agreed his donation would remain anonymous and to never seek parental support. It had all the hallmarks of an anonymous sperm donation except it was a private deal and the parties had previously had a romantic relationship.
Ms. Ferguson soon gave birth to twins. She married and, for five years, honored the deal with Mr. McKiernan. Her bond was hardly her word, however, and she brought suit against the father of her twins for child support. The trial judge expressed his dismay at her dishonest behavior but, because the deal was not binding on the twins, found the agreement was unenforceable and contrary to public policy. The Superior Court affirmed.
The Pennsylvania Supreme Court would have none of it, or at least 3 of the 5 Justices who participated. The Court acknowledged the
Justice Eakin in dissent had it right. “Do these children,” he asked, unlike any other, lack the fundamental ability to look to both parents for support? . . .Is the means by which these parents contracted to accomplish conception enough to overcome that right. I think not.” Neither do I.